Curse

upier · Jun 10, 2007, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

im not sure how he does it, but a mesmer secondary and a couple inspiration skills can provide more energy management than soul reaping, and its a lot more reliable now that SR is on a timer... ether signet and an appropriate elemental mantra can work wonders. kinda funny that a mesmer secondary attribute works better for energy management than the main energy management primary that does absolutely nothing but energy management...

now lets look at that shall we?
pve of course!

high inspiration
high fast casting since its godly
and the rest in domination or illusion
a couple of insp skills:
lets take power drain since it IS godly
one of the mantras
and AI since well - the other two are WAY to conditional
that leaves us with 5 skills - 4 if you take a rez siggy (or if you leave out AI since you only listed two e-management skills 6 skills)

now lets look at a normal pve necro build:

Quote:

Originally Posted by icymanipulator

Heres a ridiculously common necro build for you compared to a ridiculously common monk build...tell me if you can figure out the differences...
N/Me SS Nuker
Awaken the Blood 10e/ 1sec/ 45sec
Arcane Echo 15e/ 2sec/ 30sec
Spiteful Spirit 10e/ 2sec/ 10sec
Reckless Haste 15e/ 2sec/ 25sec
Enfeebling Blood 10e/ 2sec/ 5sec
Spinal Shivers 10e/ 2sec/ 15sec
Blood Ritual 10e/ 2sec/ 2sec
Resurrection Signet N/A

no e-management on pretty much MOST necros.
a mesmer will have to interrupt spells to gain energy - while at the same time players have been yelling that SoLS is BAD because they need to time it so that they use it on a foe that has less then 50% hp!
mantras - one NEEDS to get hit by the appropriate damage type
AI - added recharge, needs a high costing spell to make it work nice AND needs a high investment in the e-manipulation line that is next to useless in pve because it contains NO damage skills.

and the necro?
wait for something to die = gain energy.
the rest of the skill bar can be used for skills that cause massive damage (something that the mesmer also lacks).
the only drawback is that a necro will need to invest into SR which means that they have only about half attribute points left and they need to make a build of 8/7 skills from 1 attribute line with some 30+ skills.
wait - did i say a drawback?

to quote you:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

as some one who plays all classes, I see that as more of a grass is always greener scenario.

Miral · Jun 10, 2007, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

...

goddammit >.< I wrote this big huge post in reply to upier highlighting a nice build using ether lord and ether signet for all energy management needs with no conditional other than being low on energy... and even outlined a possibility for a primarily inspiration build that didn't do any damage but really f*cks over the enemy and has unlimited energy... but then I accidentally closed this window instead of the guild wiki window >.< maybe I'll repost it later but for now my eyes hurt lol

upier · Jun 10, 2007, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

goddammit >.< I wrote this big huge post in reply to upier highlighting a nice build using ether lord and ether signet for all energy management needs with no conditional other than being low on energy... and even outlined a possibility for a primarily inspiration build that didn't do any damage but really f*cks over the enemy and has unlimited energy... but then I accidentally closed this window instead of the guild wiki window >.< maybe I'll repost it later but for now my eyes hurt lol

id prolly run something like 12 in inspiration - to get lord to 3.
and with that in mind:
ether lord - 9 secs - of +3 regen - if i am not mistaken 1 pip is 0.33 - meaning youd gain approx 9 energy from it
ether signet - gain 18 energy
combined = 27 energy in 9 secs + natural regen
2 skills

VS.

power drain - interrupt + 20 energy (25 - 5 for the skill cost)
1 skill

why in heavens would you use signet/lord?

about your primarily inspiration build that does no damage - would your necro still get into pve teams if you ran:
max curses - high sr:
vocal minority
lingering curse
well of darkness
shadow of fear
enfeebling blood
rip enchantment
SoLS
rez

i can guarantee that this will mess up the foes!
badly for that! and with those skills you'd really be an asset to a team!
will you get in though?
if you'd build a team around it - most definitely!
otherwise ....?

and for anyone who is saying that inspiration is so much better then SR (in pve) - put all your SR attribute points into inspiration instead! sure it limits your secondary BUT the insane energy returns you'll get from that SHOULD make up for it!
right?

Lord Sojar · Jun 10, 2007, 09:18 AM // 09:18

guess what? oooga boooga boo! I am a lvl45 monster too! O_o

Look, these changes are not event intended, and probably will not be the final changes. Instead of going ape-shit about it, why don't we all just calm down and wait for the OFFICIAL updates to release, then we can bitch bitch bitch till we turn purple and pop ok?

Miral · Jun 10, 2007, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

guess what? oooga boooga boo! I am a lvl45 monster too! O_o

Look, these changes are not event intended, and probably will not be the final changes. Instead of going ape-shit about it, why don't we all just calm down and wait for the OFFICIAL updates to release, then we can bitch bitch bitch till we turn purple and pop ok?

pre-emptive strike? fix it before they get a chance to break it more, doncha know... get bulletproof glass instead of cleaning up a bloody mess later, and all that jazz. it may not be the final change word for word, but it shows the direction they are focusing at the moment, and with the real patch likely a few days away... In any case, it doesn't hurt to let em know how we feel about the proposed change so they know that it's not the direction to go come patch time.

icymanipulator · Jun 10, 2007, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Yep Upier you are correct one build out of the monk/necro comparison just plain sucks and its the necro build. I always felt it tried to do too many things.

You have a direct damage echo hexer, a caster buffer, and an enemy caster interrupter. Take a look at builds like Wildmouse posted and they make infinitely more sense. Everything on the bar is setup for a single goal with some e-management tossed in for good measure. The monk build is even more coherent heal/prot, nothing terribly fancy and it doesn't try to do too many things.

Heres what I run for the most part...

Curses 11+1+3
Soul Reaping 10
Illusion 10

Parasitic Bond 5e/ 1sec/ 2sec
Mark of Pain 10e/ 1sec/ 20sec
Spiteful Spirit 10e/ 2sec/ 10sec
Defile Enchantments 10e/ 2sec/ 15sec
Conjure Phantasm 10e/ 1sec/ 5sec
Phantom Pain 10e/ 2sec/ 15sec
Images of Remorse 5e/ 2sec/ 5sec
Sunspear Rebirth Signet N/A

So you look at this and probably think...wheres the energy management? Surely this proves SR is functioning correctly! Well actually the key here is not to spam. That and I always have Morgahn in the party to cast "Go For the Eyes!" for the attackers who will be tripping Mark of Pain and Aria of Zeal for me or the monks. So far its business as usual even under the new SR.